Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you share with us the story about what brought you to this specific career path?
As a Sports Medicine Acupuncturist and Chinese Medicine practitioner, I have seen how effective Chinese herbs are for many common conditions that I see on a daily basis in my clinic, including pain, inflammation, sleep issues, anxiety, and more. Though the herbs are super effective, the compliance is very low for Americans given their bad tastes, smell, color, etc… yucky! I was introduced to CBD in 2017 and was impressed with the initial research on its physiology and, more importantly, its effectiveness on treating patients, especially conditions of inflammation. As part of the wellness journey for a patient, acupuncture is only one piece — the others are proper diet/nutrition, corrective exercises, and supplements/ herbs, which I would recommend to patients to continue the recovery. It dawned on me that I could most likely amplify the health benefits of CBD (inflammation reduction) by blending in specific Chinese herbs to address different conditions, and that patient compliance would be much greater since more people were open to introducing CBD into their wellness plan. Thus began my entry into the CBD Hemp space. My goal as a Chinese medicine practitioner is to help people feel better by restoring the body to homeostasis, both with needles and herbs. Infusing CBD with Chinese herbs helps accomplish this much more effectively.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I would say that my early days were the most interesting as I was in discovery mode learning about cannabis, CBD hemp, and the industry. It was exciting as many people were looking to get in to the “gold rush” that was the blooming CBD business. Though New York State lagged behind the west coast and southern states like Kentucky and North Carolina in hemp production and processing, it was trying to make up for lost time. The governor was 100% behind NY’s CBD hemp industry and was committed to make NY the gold standard for quality product and develop best in class practices and regulations as the FDA had not yet set forth such guidelines. Additionally, the CBD Hemp industry was seen as an economic opportunity to vitalize areas in the “Southern tier” that had become decimated by the erosion of jobs and infrastructure from agriculture and manufacturing. I started attending summits that were a meeting place of agriculture and technology and had the feel of the late 1990’s when the internet was just taking off. Lots of buzz and excitement and the promise of the new “cannabis economy”, as it was called.
I went to these summits in NY, CO, and CA every 4–6 months and was super impressed with the level of talent and technology that was evolving. I met scientists from NASA and the oil refinement industry that were working on next generation equipment for processing hemp, scientists that were experimenting with innovative uses of the multipurpose hemp plant that included creating the electrical panels for car batteries to applications in the construction industry from concrete, insulation, to framework and flooring. It was also impressive how everyone was adapting to create businesses given the strict banking regulations since cannabis, and it’s by-products like CBD, were still federally considered a controlled substance preventing the usual financing and funding that goes with developing businesses and markets – it was all cash-based.
At my first couple of cannabis summits on the West Coast, I was expecting everyone to be in tie dye t-shirts and smoking blunts or vaping. While there was a bit of that, individuals were there for business. As the next couple of years rolled by, the t-shirts were replaced with navy blazers and I realized this business was for real and we were all setting the groundwork for the next big economy. It was also discussed that this was the time that tomorrow’s next big brands would emerge in the cannabis and CBD space, the “Coca-Cola’s and “Budweisers” of the industry. Having a background in marketing and business development, I knew the importance of first to market and creating a solid brand while the playing field was relatively green and still in flux, so I got to work on my business plan, product development, and networking with the right CBD professionals to make my vision a reality.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
This is both funny and scary. My initial products were capsules, and I was focusing on pain & inflammation reduction and performance enhancement. One of my performance enhancement formulas, which I called “YANG”, was kick ass when I tested it out. The test batch didn’t have CBD added, just the Chinese herbs. I OK’d the formula and ordered and paid for the MOQ of 500 units. I received the shipment and was excited to use it, which turned out to be the morning of a full day of patients. The effects, unfortunately, were nothing like the test batch. This batch with the added CBD had a completely different reaction: my extremities became super frigid with a cold sweat all over my body, I couldn’t properly articulate, and was trembling. I felt like I was overdosing on drugs. Luckily, my first patient was a regular and knew me really well, but she was concerned that I wasn’t well. I told her what happened and we both started hysterically laughing. For me, the experience was horrible. I had also given some “YANG” to one of my older (mid-50’s) patients who was an avid triathlete and he told me that he thought he was having a heart attack while running after he tried it. The younger athletes that sampled it, loved it as it made them feel tweaked and “high” — not exactly the effect I was shooting for. When I told the manufacturer what happened, they didn’t take responsibility and I was stuck with thousands of dollars worth of products that I was afraid to give to anyone…except the younger guys in their twenties that like to “party”. What a miss!
This taught me to work with partners that you can trust, make sure you are covered legally for any product malfunctions, and make sure to test the products thoroughly with multiple parties before you approve products .
Are you working on any exciting projects now? How do you think that will help people?
YES! I will be opening up a Dragon Hemp retail location in Sag Harbor this May. Though it would seem that most people by now are very familiar with CBD, many are not that knowledgeable of what it actually is, how it works, and what it treats. The same is less so of Chinese Herbs. Given that my concept is that CBD Hemp’s health benefits are amplified with Chinese Herbs, this storefront will serve as an experiential and educational venue, in addition to retail. My goal is to “mainstream” Chinese herbs and botanicals, introduce and further educate the public on CBD and Cannabis medicine, and be a meeting place for others working in the CBD/Cannabis space on eastern Long Island.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
One of my initial colleagues was my legal counselor who worked previously at High Times. She was instrumental in educating me on all things CBD and Cannabis, especially what was happening in New York State, and providing guard rails to protect myself as I launched the business. Compliance is super important, and she was always pushing me to adhere to guidelines and anticipate issues, especially regarding regulatory, marketing, and making claims on packaging.
Any time that I didn’t listen to her, I usually regretted it. The initial name of my product line was “CBD/Qi”, which I thought was quite genius. “CBD”, well for CBD, and “Qi” as in overall Chinese Medicine and wellness. She didn’t want me to use “CBD” anywhere in the name, and said it would be too problematic down the road given the lack of FDA guidance, etc. I named it anyway. A year later, after I finally got merchant processing, I could not market the products as anything with “CBD” was being shut down by Facebook, Instagram, Google, Amazon… it was over. All of the main brands were scrubbing CBD from their labels and websites as well as replacing it with “hemp” and “extracts”. I had to start from scratch, rename the product line, re-label product. I debated whether I should hang up my cleats, but decided to go for it instead, thus “Dragon Hemp” was born: “Dragon” relating to Chinese Medicine and wellness, and “Hemp”, well, you can say, “hemp”, just not CBD. Go figure.
This industry is young dynamic and creative. Do you use any clever and innovative marketing strategies that you think large legacy companies should consider adopting?
Be disruptive, and really focus on great social media content.
Can you share 3 things that most excite you about the Cannabis industry? Can you share 3 things that most concern you?
Three things that excite me:
- As a practitioner, the potential to further unlock the healing aspects of cannabis is tremendous.
- The applications of how hemp and cannabis can be used will be extraordinary. Clothing, food, building, supplements. It’s an extraordinary plant!
- The Cannabis industry can revitalize areas in economically depressed areas of the US
Three things that concern me:
- Substance abuse and impaired driving
- Re-acclimating incarcerated people from previous and small marijuana offenses
- Over regulation
Can you share your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started Leading a Cannabis Business”? Please share a story or example for each.
- You are going to be investing a lot of money to get the business rolling — I never knew how much things would actually cost until I got deeper into the weeds. You will try to do as many things yourself, but you can’t, and it will take money to compensate talent, develop products, build websites, etc. Find a great business advisor to run things by and keep you from wasteful, non-strategic spending. As in most things, you get what you pay for. I also didn’t anticipate the need for great, “evergreen” creative needs for website and social media. The market is becoming somewhat mature and to break through and resonate with consumers, the product needs strong creative that conveys the brand on multiple touch points.
- “Start where you want to finish” — I was actually given this advice when I started my acupuncture practice 12 years ago and I forgot it when I started my CBD company!! I’ve been “lean and mean” since the beginning, especially on creative, hiring consultants, building the website and developing social media. I was told by a marketing mentor for my creative and branding to be “disruptive” so set out to find the right people and agencies to help me create my brand. The proposals from hot creative agencies were a mind-blowing six-figures where I was planning to spend only a fraction. After almost a year relaunching the brand, I’m in a place where my creative and strategy isn’t working and has become reactive vs disruptive, and have been mimicking what the big players are doing. That strategy is not working. Currently, I am taking a step back and planning a brand re-fresh and better creative strategy to course correct for long term. It’s not going to be cheap, but feel it is important to be “disruptive” and grab market share and sales.
- It will take 8–12 months to get products on the market — Rome wasn’t built in a day, and launching new products takes time. Unless you have your own cGMP facility, you will need to find one that can manufacture your CBD products, as regulated by most states. If you want to do any customization on your dream CBD products, once you find the right manufacturing partner, there will be an R&D process that will take 6–8 months of formulating, testing, modifying, approving, manufacturing, bottling, labeling, and shipping. Depending on the manufacturer, the turn-around time can take a long time, and there are always delays…COVID, sourcing of ingredients, power failures, sick days, etc. Be patient and stay proactive.
- Take your time finding the right people, and make sure they have CBD experience — CBD is a very specific industry on so many levels: vernacular, regulatory environment, advertising & marketing, labeling, etc. First, get legal representation from a person or firm that specializes in cannabis and CBD. Period. You need to run everything by them. Everyone that touches your brand needs to have some sort of CBD experience. Don’t let anyone learn the CBD industry on your time otherwise your company will make mistakes and waste time, and that is money. Other industries, such as beauty, supplements, beverages, CPG do not translate to CBD. Know what you know, and find other experienced people for all of the other stuff. The best thing that I did was hire someone that worked with start-ups and to help set up the nuts and bolts of Dragon Hemp. You can work with “friends”, but fair warning…it might not work out. I wasted money and time in the beginning with consultants that were friends that didn’t deliver on my expectations; make sure expectations are aligned.
- Take your time on deciding on name and logo — Marketing professionals actually mentioned this at one of the brand seminars at a Cannabis summit. Did I listen, no! It is always so exciting to dream up of a cool name and start spending time and resources designing a logo before production on your first SKU starts. My first iteration was called Sagamore Botanicals and I was sourcing creative directors on Instagram, hired someone in the UK, paid a big sum of money (at the time), and got this cool logo that I don’t even use anymore. It was also so small on the capsule bottle labels that you couldn’t even make it out. Have a working journal and draft names and taglines. They will evolve over time, and you may be in a different place when you are ready to go to market than from where you started. Keep it simple, and have it convey the personality and differentiator of your product.
What advice would you give to other CEOs or founders to help their employees to thrive?
- Remember that you are a team, and be grateful that you have people to help you achieve your vision.
- People don’t work for you, they work with you. Even though it is “my” company, I do not use “my”, I use “we” in all communications.
- Acknowledge great work.
- Be patient — your team and co-workers, subcontractors, etc have lives and families
- Things take time, have realistic time lines and manage expectations, including your own
- Make sure your expectations are in alignment with your team on deliverables. Don’t assume they know what you want and can read your mind.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
I believe that we are all given a unique set of talents by our creator, and it is up to us to figure out what they are and how to use them to best serve our fellow humans. Sometimes it might not be so apparent as we might be on different career paths through life. That was the case with me — I grew up on farm and as a high-school student was a member of FFA (Future Farmers of America) and a member of the soil judging team, sugar cane judging team, and even poultry judging team (I actually placed first in state on the latter). Fast forward to now, I worked in hospitality and food services, talent agencies, digital media companies, pivoted to healthcare, and now launched a CBD hemp company blending botanicals to help people address their pain and improve health. I feel that it has all come full circle working within an agriculture-based industry perfected with technology creating natural plant-based medicine.
I toyed around with different ideas for years about products that I could make based in Chinese herbs, but the response was never that great. When CBD Hemp came along, I saw a great opportunity to combine all of my interests and hopefully do some good along the way. Be patient, keep ideating, and take action when you feel you have the right idea. Good luck!
What is the best way our readers can follow you on social media?
@dragonhempherbs on Instagram
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
